How to reframe global power dynamics in research partnerships, with Dr. Anne Makena

"Everything in Oxford is named Oxford this or Oxford that, and we were very deliberate in being named Africa Oxford not Oxford Africa, and that re-centers Africa in the conversation" says the Co-Director of the Africa Oxford Initiative, Dr. Anne Makena on The Web of Us. In conversation with Claire Wathen, Anne shares how she’s spearheading equitable and sustainable partnerships between Oxford’s and Africa’s best researchers, how institutions can be more accessible by signposting opportunities, and the beauty and challenges of inhabiting multiple identities.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Anne Makena: Being very true to who you are, really becomes critical in a place that is as transient as Oxford.  

[00:00:10] Claire Wathen: Welcome to the web of us, where we explore the visible and invisible connections that shape our world. I'm your host, Claire Wathen. At the heart of every social network are people, relationships, how they form, evolve and create opportunities.

[00:00:24] Claire Wathen: Understanding networks isn't just about seeing who's connected to whom. It's also about recognizing the flow of [00:00:30] resources, information, trust, influence. Through these connections, inevitably power comes into play. How do some gain access to powerful networks while others face barriers? And what role do gatekeepers or perhaps gate openers play in shaping these dynamics?

[00:00:47] Claire Wathen: Our guest today has made it her life's work to Open Gates. Dr. Anne Makena. Anne is on a mission to get more Africans into academia, a space where they currently represent just 1% of the world's [00:01:00] researchers. From her roots in Kenya to living in Ghana and now calling Oxford home. Anne has experienced firsthand the complexities of bridging different worlds.

[00:01:10] Claire Wathen: A biochemist turned network and partnership builder. She is the co-director of the Africa Oxford Initiative. In our conversation, we explore the role of gatekeepers and shifting power dynamics in networks, building collaborations across borders and industries with equity in mind and how embracing.

[00:01:29] Claire Wathen: [00:01:30] Constraints in the structured environments like a university can unlock new possibilities now on the power of cross-regional connections. Here's Dr. Annee McKenna.

[00:01:40] Claire Wathen: Hello Annee. Welcome to the web of us. So excited to have you. 

[00:01:50] Anne Makena: It's an incredible privilege, Claire. Thank you so much for having me. 

[00:01:54] Claire Wathen: We've known each other quite a while now, and I was thinking back to how we met, which [00:02:00] if I'm not mistaken, was in a very noisy. Dining hall in the business school, and we saw each other from across the table.

[00:02:11] Claire Wathen: And different mutual friends of ours had said, we need to meet each other, but we hadn't yet. So we made eye contact and said, oh, we're gonna definitely chat more. We're gonna dive into your fascinating journey. Um, but first would love to start with you. Where do you call 

[00:02:27] Anne Makena: home? So I called [00:02:30] Kenya, Ghana, and the UK home.

[00:02:33] Anne Makena: I was born and brought up in Kenya. My family's still there. I got married in Ghana, and so my family also used in Ghana. I've lived in the UK for over a decade now. Uh, so home is where my wet clothes are at. Anyone given point. 

[00:02:49] Claire Wathen: Oh, I love that. And I'm curious, there's quite a, there's quite a dinner party culture in Oxford.

[00:02:56] Claire Wathen: Um, I'm curious how you enter those [00:03:00] rooms. How do you introduce yourself if they're people who have never met you before? I. 

[00:03:04] Anne Makena: So I would probably say I'm a, I'm a biochemist and I work at the medical sciences, um, division. If it's a usual guide, hustling, finding their way around the world, I would probably say, um, a Kenyan researcher working on building partnerships, which between Oxford and African institution.

[00:03:23] Claire Wathen: Yeah. And we'll, we'll unpack some of that in the conversation today. I think part of what I'm really fascinated is the [00:03:30] multitudes that we all carry. Even though we often find ourselves described or contained into a title or a category or one geography, one issue area, but that there is so much richness and expansiveness beyond that.

[00:03:48] Anne Makena: Yeah, absolutely. And uh, it's one of the hardest thing about being a person who's in between and in Oxford, your identity is always being put to question. So like, what do you do is not just. [00:04:00] You know, uh, and in know it makes people almost attach a value to you, uh, in an institution where they such dichotomy between people who are sort of research managers and research leaders, um, early career postdoc where there's a pi, you know, all of those of power and privilege.

[00:04:22] Anne Makena: It, you can really get caught up in, in a lot of stress if you kind of define yourself for the right. You know, step in the [00:04:30] ladder as it were. Mm-hmm. And for me, who, you know, started out in science, went into research wise and now in advocacy and starting a company as well, it, it's very difficult to put me in any one niche box.

[00:04:43] Claire Wathen: Mm-hmm. As you navigate all of that. And I'm, I'm curious also thinking about sort of the 10 year journey you've had in Oxford. What helps you stay grounded? What helps you? Um. Yeah, take care of yourself and and [00:05:00] center who you are, your identity across these different areas, given the dynamics that you're navigating.

[00:05:06] Anne Makena: I, I don't know that I have worked it out completely. I think they all works in progress and things change quite a lot. It was definitely very different 'cause I came here. As a student, my identity there was very different. The spaces I occupied, the fire I could bring to a space is very different from where now I'm out of a [00:05:30] institution.

[00:05:30] Anne Makena: As it long I've become institutionalized. My positionality has changed quite a bit and therefore how I show up in spaces also and how I'm seeing in spaces has also changed quite bit. Um, but I think the one thing that has remained consistent is I am very fortunate. I was raised surrounded by people who constantly reminded me of who I am and for what purpose I exist, and that I don't live for myself, I for [00:06:00] the people around me.

[00:06:01] Anne Makena: And as long as I am committed to purpose and the mission of what it is that I'm doing here, then who I am is gonna be who I am no matter where I am. And, and I've been very fortunate that I've had a very compelling reason to stay in Oxford. 'cause the other thing about spaces that it's very transient, people come and go a quick flash, right?

[00:06:22] Anne Makena: So even people who know you in a particular way, by the time they encounter you, you know, three, four years later. [00:06:30] Things are very different and you are very different. They're very different. So being very true to who you are really becomes critical in a place that is as transient, um, as Oxford. Uh, I think I have gained a lot of clarity from just being sure that the work that I'm doing is not just Oxford.

[00:06:51] Anne Makena: The work that I'm doing is centered around, um, supporting and facilitating. Work that's going on in the continent [00:07:00] and that has been contributed. 

[00:07:02] Claire Wathen: Mm-hmm. Once you got to Oxford, the areas of research would love to hear more about, um, where you dove into and how did you think about the areas of specialty that you would, that you would focus on?

[00:07:14] Claire Wathen: So 

[00:07:15] Anne Makena: when I got into Oxford, in fact, I was coming in as a road color and there were only two in Kenya. 

[00:07:21] Claire Wathen: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:23] Anne Makena: Still, they only gave two to Kenyans. And I was coming with a colleague who was a medical doctor as well, but he had worked in other [00:07:30] places. So when we were talking about what we are applying for, um, I, I thought I would do something that was more in medical, um, administration or things like that.

[00:07:40] Anne Makena: And, and he said, I mean, you, in Oxford, it's one of the biggest research centers in the world. Why don't you invest in, in, you know, drilling a little bit deeper in the science? I go, well, okay, it makes sense to me. I do well in it. I enjoy science. Let me, and she had the time. I also to working in a hospital in Western Kenya.

[00:07:58] Anne Makena: I was looking at HIV [00:08:00] appearance, so a RV appearance among. Um, alcoholics get HIV. So on my personal side, I mean, what the work I've done has got a personal element to it. So from a personal side, um, one of my very, very close relatives was struggling with, with, um, drug addiction. And they were not keeping the tabs with their medication or anything.

[00:08:21] Anne Makena: And so when this research project came to our university, I jumped into it and I did it after university straight on. And I think I was very fascinated by the [00:08:30] drug interactions. Between drugs and the ARVs. Mm-hmm. And from there, what I came to do in Oxford was looking at how, what are the key drivers of antimicrobial resistance?

[00:08:41] Anne Makena: So not, um, antiretroviral, but now anti microbes. 'cause that's what my research lab was looking at. The only difference is I felt that my work in Oxford was very lab based. He was entirely divorced from, you know, the reality of people's lives. So we would look at how. Bacteria develops [00:09:00] different mechanisms to attack our antibiotics and how we can reverse that, those mechanisms and allow antibiotics to continue their activity.

[00:09:10] Anne Makena: My work in Kenya, on the other hand, was thinking both from a micro biological and the biophysical property side of things, but also thinking what are the social determinants that make it impossible people to adhere to track? So by the time I finished, I felt very knowledgeable as a scientist. But very removed from the reality of the people that I loved and cared for.[00:09:30]

[00:09:30] Anne Makena: So it was a double-edged sword. Mm-hmm. 

[00:09:34] Claire Wathen: And fascinating to have both the practical in-person experience of the hospital with the lab and the, um, the scientific research, the, the more theoretical in many ways, do you feel drawn to. Either side of the spectrum or do you see it as a spectrum? So I think there is hope for both.

[00:09:56] Claire Wathen: I think what 

[00:09:56] Anne Makena: we have not done very well is tell [00:10:00] people who don't want to build a career just in academia and that it's okay. You know, academia is not, you know, a PhD is not just for academic pro. You learn how to ask the right questions, how to devise the right methods to be able to answer those questions.

[00:10:18] Anne Makena: You learn how and look for the information and the data that you need to come to some sensible, you know, inferences from the data you got there. You learn how to go back through that process again and see [00:10:30] the holes in your thinking and how to learn from others in the field. And so I think for me, it, it was very difficult, especially the past two years after the PhD, to not feel like, you know, I failed.

[00:10:42] Anne Makena: You know, I felt the women in stem a lot of pressure. Not meeting a lot. Yeah. Look like very few African women in science. Like, you know, you ca you are in the leaky pipeline. That's, oh god, that's the line that people, the leaky pipeline. Oh, what does that mean? [00:11:00] So the concept is that we have a lot of young women who get into academia or get into research early on.

[00:11:05] Anne Makena: So we have quite a few, um, a masters and undergraduate. In fact, we par or sometimes especially in biological sciences, we have more women coming into biological sciences. And then when you get to master's level, they start dropping off. So when you get to PhD, they're getting you in fuel. And as you go through that academic pipeline, by the time you get to profess level, you have very, very few left.

[00:11:27] Anne Makena: And so people are leaking off the pipeline [00:11:30] I see. Throughout the journey. So I was one of visual of the molecules. Its terrible. I was one of the molecules that leaked out. That leaked out, okay. If you think. Yeah. So it was, it's very difficult and I, I talk to my students all the time, say, you know, don't be bound by other people's expectations of, of who you are, what you should do.

[00:11:53] Anne Makena: You know where your calling lies and that it's taken me a long while to be comfortable with living out my home. [00:12:00]

[00:12:00] Claire Wathen: Yeah. And, and allowing the, the pressure and expectations from others to. You know, flow by you. It's, it's fine to acknowledge those, but not to carry them, not to let that influence how, how you're proceeding and, and drawing at something that's difficult to do.

[00:12:17] Claire Wathen: Easy to say. 

[00:12:18] Anne Makena: Easy to say, but I mean, it, it's much better to be doing the work that you're doing with a full car and to be a really terrible academic. 'cause we've got so many of them that are sticking it through because of [00:12:30] expectations, because of. You know, this is the only thing I know how to do, or how do I get out of this sector?

[00:12:36] Anne Makena: It's the only thing I've been trained to, to, to do. And then they become terrible supervisors and terrible mentors and so forth and cycle to yourself, so, mm-hmm. Um, it takes a while to learn how to stand in your, in your truth, but when you do that, it's very liberating. 

[00:12:55] Claire Wathen: Mm. Yes. When you stand in your truth, it's very liberating.[00:13:00]

[00:13:00] Claire Wathen: Well help us bridge from your research and PhD chapter into where you are now with, uh. Africa, Oxford Initiative. There were several interesting steps along the journey there, and I'm, I'm curious to hear how you navigated. Was it a sequential plAnneed, you saw a particular path or did things more organically open up?

[00:13:26] Anne Makena: Yeah, no serendipity. To be honest. [00:13:30] I, as I said, I knew I did not want, by the time I was finishing, I was clear that I didn't, um, want to just be in the lab building, you know, um, a research group or something of a sort, but I didn't know what that looked like, so I, I wanted to move back to the continent and find my feet mm-hmm.

[00:13:48] Anne Makena: Um, in some research institution and where I can go back to that feeling I had of doing work that matters to the people that I love. And um, I remember I was at a [00:14:00] conference in 2015, uh, in London. Actually. I was running away from my thesis. I was up to here 

[00:14:06] Claire Wathen: running away from your thesis. 

[00:14:10] Anne Makena: Don't tell my students.

[00:14:12] Claire Wathen: Oh, I definitely won't. 

[00:14:15] Anne Makena: I was fleeing from my thesis. I went into this conference and it, it was about, it was a science and conference about science in Africa, and I I, in the conference we're talking about how we build science [00:14:30] culture and how we build a research ecosystem in the continent that can then really, you know, connect at a more equitable, you know, level with global research enterprises.

[00:14:41] Anne Makena: And I was the, at the time, I think I was one of only two. Um, by the time I was very finishing at the beginning, I was the only African and chemistry department in Oxford who were working on all these Africa related issues, you know, from antimicrobial resistance to, uh, cancer epigenes and everything in [00:15:00] between, and all these things affected the continent significantly and mm-hmm.

[00:15:04] Anne Makena: We would talk at a time of even now, 16% of the global population, 25% of the global burden of disease, but less than 1%. Of the world's research as, uh, African. Wow. And there's no way these challenges we're dealing with could be handled by a handful of people. No. And the handful of people cAnneot then be competing with global enterprise.

[00:15:29] Anne Makena: I mean, [00:15:30] the numbers, we say the 198 researchers for million in the continent compared to the whole continent, compared to four, over 4,000 in the UK alone. Wow. I mean, the numbers are pretty stark. 

[00:15:46] Claire Wathen: Yeah. 

[00:15:46] Anne Makena: Yeah. So, uh, we were talking about this with some colleagues and this, uh, this gentleman came and introduced himself and said, Hey, I'm Kevin.

[00:15:54] Anne Makena: I work for the RY Welcome Trust Program in kfi. Who would love to explore the things that you were raising? This is one of the [00:16:00] reasons we set up this center, and I've been, you know, directing it for 25 years. I started with eight researchers in the continent, and now we are over 800. 

[00:16:09] Claire Wathen: Wow. 

[00:16:09] Anne Makena: Okay. I know the came welcome program and I knew some of the dynamics that were happening at the time, so I berate this guy about equitable science partnerships and, and why it's important to think about, you know.

[00:16:26] Anne Makena: Research funding and all of that, and African LED [00:16:30] research. And he tells me about the things he's been thinking about. I say gives me his card and as I walk out, um, I see on the card founder and director of.

[00:16:42] Anne Makena: That would've been my one shot at a job in Kenya, but I blew, and surprisingly, he, when he came to Oxford, he was finishing running the program in Kenya, came to Oxford. I, I enjoyed the conversation with, for a coffee, you know, it's probably refreshing 

[00:16:59] Claire Wathen: to hear [00:17:00] direct. Directly what you thought. You know, it's your authentic perspective.

[00:17:04] Claire Wathen: And because people know that he has that title, he probably doesn't get that very often in person. You know, like that's a very human, human thing. 

[00:17:14] Anne Makena: Yeah. So we talked a lot about our shared interest and mean he was coming back, but those thinking back home, we had a lot of, you know, crossover in terms of focus on Africa and thinking about transforming how Oxford was looking at the continent.

[00:17:27] Anne Makena: I saw, well, first born, a year later when [00:17:30] I finished my history, he said, if you're done and you wAnnea build the thing you kept hammering me about, come, let's build it. And I said, okay, I'll do it for one year, then go get a real job. Mm-hmm. And here, here we are 10 years later. 

[00:17:43] Claire Wathen: I love that. One year. And then get a real job.

[00:17:47] Claire Wathen: No, it's been an incredible job. I mean, over those 10 years, Africa Oxford Initiative has fostered an impressive amount of 250 collaborations with 120 [00:18:00] African institutions serving over 3000 students and researchers, and I've seen just in the last three to five years, the prominence and relevance of this conversation and amplifying the.

[00:18:15] Claire Wathen: The core mission of, you know, what is Africa's role in global research, facilitating partnerships, creating spaces where. It's not just a conversation, but there's clear pathways for that research to be [00:18:30] translated for products to connect. Just overall, I'm really curious to dig into this with you and see, you know, from that vision, um, how was it to get started and, um.

[00:18:44] Claire Wathen: What were the, what was in focus? Did you think of this as a network from the beginning? Was it centered in programs at the beginning or Yeah, just kinda take us back to that, those early days of, of bringing this to life. 

[00:18:58] Anne Makena: Yeah. So, [00:19:00] you know, it's really is fascinating how our folks was going to be this, understand this is a testament to the incredible network.

[00:19:07] Anne Makena: That, that we've got and, and a fantastic, absolutely fantastic team of individuals. Um, and when we started it was just Kevin and myself. And, and so what, what what we were very clear about from the beginning is that we will not start with a strategy from Oxford and say this is a strategy of Africa engagement in Oxford.

[00:19:29] Anne Makena: We were [00:19:30] going to go talking to people across the, the university first socializing the idea, finding out. We've had hundreds centuries of relationships with the, with the continent, good, bad, and ugly, and. We've had also many, many, many attempts at pulling together, you know, Oxford, you cAnneot carral anybody into anything.

[00:19:50] Anne Makena: You know, 

[00:19:52] Claire Wathen: it's quite a challenge. 

[00:19:55] Anne Makena: Many people have tried to pull together, you know, an Africa center of some [00:20:00] sort. We have the Africa Study Center, which is where, 'cause it's an academic center for people outside of where is specific in, um, uh, they don't have 

[00:20:08] Claire Wathen: appointments there. They don't have, yeah. 

[00:20:10] Anne Makena: Yeah.

[00:20:12] Anne Makena: There wasn't really a way of pulling this together, and at the same time in the continent, there wasn't a view of how an African, you would engage with Oxford. Mm-hmm. You would just wait for somebody to reach out to you. Who do you even contact? How do you know they're interested? And some of you are interested in a partnership, not 'cause you're [00:20:30] African, but because you're a shared scientific interest.

[00:20:31] Anne Makena: So an Astros is, mm-hmm. I, the astrophyics. You do, I'm not coming to you as an, but I just wAnnea partner with somebody who's got a methodology that I'm curious about for, uh, a, a data set that complement yours. So those kinds of things, there wasn't a centralized place you could actually find out. There was a lot going on.

[00:20:50] Anne Makena: Mm-hmm. For about a year and a half. It was just that engagement from 2015 until we actually had our soft launch in October, 2016. I know the years so [00:21:00] well because I mark Aox years by my pregnancies. I love 

[00:21:05] Claire Wathen: that 

[00:21:07] Anne Makena: I was seven months pregnant when we launched our 14 October, 2016, seven 

[00:21:10] Claire Wathen: months pregnant. Okay.

[00:21:11] Claire Wathen: I'm doubly impressed now. 

[00:21:15] Anne Makena: Well, but yeah, so by the time we were launching, actually it was a soft launch because we brought in about a hundred African academics to work doing multiple things in, in London and in other parts of of the country to come and help us develop what would become our [00:21:30] core programs moving forward.

[00:21:32] Anne Makena: And I think that's really why AOC was able to grow. Like I, I come from a, you know, social movement kind of background, like a home. And so I think AOC grew as a grassroots movement because we were not like a Wellington Square. For those who don't understand, we were not a central university program. That was delivered by two academics.

[00:21:53] Anne Makena: It was essentially those of us who were working in the continent, those of us who were curious about what this would look like, and those [00:22:00] of us who were pushing that Africa should be a strategic priority for institutions like Oxford that came together and said, okay. These are my limitations, these are my challenges.

[00:22:10] Anne Makena: How do we address this programmatically and institutionalize and institutional institutionalize the things that we wanted to see happen? Mm-hmm. And I think that's the power that folks was able to build that coalition and that, you know, movement in, in the beginning we were also very fortunate because, um, we didn't have any [00:22:30] funding to start with.

[00:22:31] Anne Makena: Um, and that's really difficult. Mm-hmm. Unusual 

[00:22:35] Claire Wathen: for Oxford. For something. Yeah, to not start with the money. Typically. Yeah, exactly. 

[00:22:41] Anne Makena: Yeah, exactly. 'cause you start with some, if somebody donates something and then you're like, let me build something around what they've given me. Exactly, 

[00:22:47] Claire Wathen: exactly. That seems to be what I've observed at least.

[00:22:51] Anne Makena: Yeah, no, we, we started with let's build something. Um, and then when we are doing something good, maybe some people fund. Mm-hmm. And in fact, our initial funding came from [00:23:00] Kevin himself, who was very generous and. He got a big award from the prize for his tion in malaria research in Africa. And he put the money in and in know, she's the organization, Africa Foundation in in, in Kenya to get us started at the same time.

[00:23:17] Anne Makena: And honestly, that really spur things, allowed us to experiment to some quick and dirty, you know, programs that, you know, we could, you know, try and fail and. Change and, you [00:23:30] know, have flexibility and the agility to adapt because it was, I think that initial, um, sort of momentum is really, was really helpful.

[00:23:42] Claire Wathen: Mm-hmm. Yeah. When I first heard about. Africa, Oxford Initiative, which is called AOX for short. Yes. Um, it's, uh, just so that we're clear there, um, it was described to me as, you know, Oxford as a system. There's 36, is that right? 36 [00:24:00] 46 colleges, yeah. 38 college. Yeah. Yeah. Let me many. It's, it's fascinating because when I first heard about.

[00:24:09] Claire Wathen: Africa Oxford Initiative. It was described to me as, you know, there's 38 colleges that are essentially like lanes. They have their independent governance operations. Uh. Faculty, you know, researchers, students, programs, departments, initiatives all the way down. And then [00:24:30] what's been fascinating is there are a few of these cross-cutting networks in Oxford that are attempting to bring them together around entrepreneurship or technical assistants or, um.

[00:24:43] Claire Wathen: You know, the intellectual property development or, um, some of these different areas, but I think Aox is really an outlier in how you've been able to, because you started with a relational approach, getting to know people and what they needed and what they were doing, [00:25:00] and that formulated what the structure was.

[00:25:03] Claire Wathen: And it's, it's always felt, um, and I continue to hear this as I. Meet people in Oxford that it's one of the spaces where you can just show up and you can weave in or weave out as you have time. Like there's a, there's a fluidness that you've, you've somehow built into the fabric of what it is, as well as very structured programs and mentorships and other, you know.

[00:25:26] Claire Wathen: Um, operational aspects, but I'm curious just on the model and [00:25:30] how, how would you describe that from the early stages of sensing and building mm-hmm. Into over time. There's a lot of dynamics that many groups, whether they call themselves a network or not run into with sort of the original players, the new players dynamics.

[00:25:50] Claire Wathen: I'm just kind of curious how you think about the model.

[00:25:56] Anne Makena: That's a really interesting question, Claire, and um, I, [00:26:00] I'm really glad that people speak that highly over books, honestly. And I can reiterate how powerful it's to hear that. 'cause in the beginning I was just fumbling you uhhuh, try something and see if something works right. But I think the fluidity is really critical because as I said, Oxford is so transient.

[00:26:21] Anne Makena: Mm-hmm. But so, uh, so is academic life, right? Um. The ideas change so frequently you want to be responsive to [00:26:30] changes in priorities. Um, but I think the thing that really helped us was this idea of having a cross university approach. So we're very clear from the beginning. We were not. In any one particular, you know, in, you know, focus area or any one particular college.

[00:26:48] Anne Makena: And so having that very de deliberate pan university view, and you can see from a Australian board, we wanted somebody from every division represented who wanted students, African students in Oxford [00:27:00] represented African staff represented as well, so that we've got a broad view as broad a view as possible.

[00:27:07] Anne Makena: And I think the value started in acknowledging that we, we don't know everything, right? We really don't know everything. All we are doing is our folks is creating some framework that can then, you can take and adapt in whichever shape or form so it can work for you and in your context. So. You'll see, for example, the, the, the three core principles that we keep in [00:27:30] mind no matter what program that we do, is equity, sustainability and impact.

[00:27:35] Anne Makena: And that shapes that, that is, occurs very differently in different contexts, but you cAnneot. As it will move too far away from those strength schools without losing the value of what our box was set up to do in the past place. Right. Um, and so because of that as well, we were able to create some frameworks that have now being adapted by the India Oxford Initiative.

[00:27:56] Anne Makena: It's also now being adopted by a new partnership carry box, [00:28:00] which is Caribbean, Oxford again. Mm-hmm. Very creative. It's fascinating 

[00:28:04] Claire Wathen: to see the, um. Well, it doesn't have to be too creative in the title. Sometimes less is more. Yeah. 

[00:28:10] Anne Makena: Yeah. Yeah. And so I think for us, the question was we cAnneot hog the ideas or it cAnneot be like it's our thing.

[00:28:17] Anne Makena: Mm-hmm. It was how do we build frameworks that are across the university that are responsive to the questions and concerns and and priorities of our colleagues, um, across the regions that we want to work with. And [00:28:30] then use things that can then be bought, you know, taken up by other parts of the university and build into the way they imagine their relationships with, with their partners.

[00:28:41] Anne Makena: I think that from the beginning was really core and, and important in in, in how we develop our, I mean, I think the other thing is being very deliberately having collaborators in our steering board. And in our decision making processes because then they will be very honest and refer with you and say, you know, the things that [00:29:00] you're trying to build just will fly.

[00:29:02] Anne Makena: And we had projects, programs that started and died in year two because this just isn't working, you know, and we could, we had the flexibility to drop them. Um. When they were no longer serving the purpose. 

[00:29:16] Claire Wathen: Mm-hmm. 

[00:29:16] Anne Makena: So I think from my experience is twofold. One, having a very clear vision and a very clear focal point.

[00:29:23] Anne Makena: As I say, Africa as a strategic priority, equity, sustainability and impact. And the [00:29:30] approach is quite simple. Is. Equitable partnerships across a breadth of, you know, disciplines across the university and then creating frameworks that anybody can then take and adapt and tailor depending on what their particular disciplines demand or their, the region of focus demands or what.

[00:29:47] Anne Makena: Resources, their partners support and so forth. Yeah. I think one thing that we often say, um, it's not just a acute narrative, I think it's important is that everything in Oxford is named Oxford based. Oxford bad, [00:30:00] Oxford based. Yeah. And we, we were very deliberated being Africa, Oxford, uh, not Oxford, Africa because then that, that receptors Africa in the conversation and really signals our very deliberate attempt to make sure that this is about.

[00:30:17] Anne Makena: Driving what our colleagues in the continent want forward. Um, and having that at the front and center, no matter which end of the pie you are eating, you've got that as a focus point. Mm-hmm. [00:30:30]

[00:30:30] Claire Wathen: There does seem to be a juxtaposition in that approach of equity and access and, you know, creating just enough structure where people know how to engage, but.

[00:30:41] Claire Wathen: They could replicate it, they could shift it, you know, come in and out with the fact that you're operating in Oxford, which is highly structured, highly gate kept. But how? How do you do what you do in a place that's set up in such a structured gate kept way? Because [00:31:00] I could see there's a lot of tension in that, either very explicitly or right under the surface.

[00:31:06] Anne Makena: So if you have a creative idea, I mean, Oxford really gives you a lot of leeway to try things out, right? I mean, as I, relatively young, I say, but you know, African women navigating an institution a thousand years old, there was a lot of learning and that learning that I needed to, um, and for the sake of the institution, for the sake of the, [00:31:30] of the, of the programs that we're running and for the people that we are investing in.

[00:31:34] Anne Makena: But I have to say it's easier to do that when you have a program in mind when you have, like I was championing for the visiting fellows, for the African students, and so. When you're championing for yourself, Ooh, it's a lot harder. Harder. 

[00:31:50] Claire Wathen: Yeah, 

[00:31:50] Anne Makena: it's a lot harder. And I think we need to be honest, especially when we talk about, we talk to young female leaders who are trying to navigate the work environment and [00:32:00] the various spaces that you occupy that are really not designed with you in mind that it's okay to get confused sometimes.

[00:32:07] Anne Makena: That it's not always fair. How to navigate those systems and, and you're not, you know, you're not crazy for not knowing implicitly. Because if things are not obvious and it takes a long time to learn and, and if you are in a position of influence, you know, please, please make this, you know, invisible pathways a bit more open so people don't have to [00:32:30] bang their heads on the wall doing all the right things.

[00:32:33] Anne Makena: Mm-hmm. But not getting anywhere. 

[00:32:35] Claire Wathen: Well, I think I'm also hearing there is no right only path or way to do it. And often when we hear, you know, how to navigate, how to. Network. The talking points that we're receiving are, you know, find out who you wAnnea go work with and go talk to them about a job or go. If you're trying to get into a program, go find that person and, and be very [00:33:00] transactional, very, you know, direct and pointed with, I have this idea, are you able to help me do it?

[00:33:06] Claire Wathen: And what you have illustrated for us in such beautiful ways across your journey is the. The beauty of taking the time, time to be patient, time to let things unfold, time to allow yourself to discover what, what comes to you. And that, um, sometimes it doesn't have to be so, so forced. Sometimes we can [00:33:30] give ourselves space to let it emerge, and that in building relationships and getting to know people and, um, creating a coalition of the willing that they are.

[00:33:41] Claire Wathen: You know, enlisted to be with you on the journey and open up doors with you in a way that first isn't so lonely and difficult, but also that, um, could bring a whole suite of things that you don't even imagine when you start. I'm curious, as you look forward, let's say it's 10 years from [00:34:00] now, we've been looking back a lot, um, what are your hopes for the kinds of connections that are in place?

[00:34:06] Claire Wathen: What does it look like to be an African researcher in Oxford? What kind of bridges? Spaces have emerged. 

[00:34:13] Anne Makena: Well, I think a lot about what the future looks like and I, I, not in 10 years, but I guess eventually I hope we get to a point where African research or expertise in spaces like Oxford and others, like it is nothing to speak about.

[00:34:28] Anne Makena: You know, there's nothing new about it. [00:34:30] There's nothing actually, there's nothing interesting about it. This is just how we do business. We've done research places where we don't have the people from those places in our research rooms. Yes. I mean, it's not that difficult. It's such a complex concept, right?

[00:34:44] Anne Makena: No. No, it isn't. And yet we've got a huge untapped potential in the African intellectual capital to both maximize our impact, both financial and social impact, but also to risk investment and sift through the perceived and the real risk. [00:35:00] In the continent to drive us in, you know, opening up and unlocking new financial flows for developing.

[00:35:07] Anne Makena: And currently what's keeping me awake is how over the next 10 years I can work a bit more with the colleagues that we've supported to build their research expertise and connect them, um, through a news, uh, because I'm not busy enough, a new company that will set up a research research. That's really looking to bring [00:35:30] investors and academics together to say, here's all the evidence we have about solar PVS in Angola.

[00:35:38] Anne Makena: Here's what you're investing in. Here's how you can make it better. Here's how it can be more sustainably manufactured, and here's how it can have more impact in the society. Here's all the evidence we have on EdTech in Liberia, you know. Yeah. What works here is what doesn't work, and here is how you can app portion your, you can allocate your capital in more efficient ways [00:36:00] so we can actually get all this conversational, you know?

[00:36:03] Anne Makena: Yeah. Move beyond that. 

[00:36:04] Claire Wathen: Yeah. 

[00:36:05] Anne Makena: And we move beyond the high risk. High Africa is high risk. I will just get past it. We have enough evidence and if we don't have it, let's know what we don't have. And then so we can invest in generating research expertise in those spaces. Mm-hmm. So that's my current, um, sort of craze at the moment.

[00:36:22] Anne Makena: Oh, it's amazing. New connection. 

[00:36:25] Claire Wathen: A beautiful continuity, you know, a beautiful con continuation of what, [00:36:30] um, of what your journey has been so far. We'll be sure to link to all of these different initiatives for folks to learn more about them. And, um, and thank you so much for joining and sharing your perspective and reminding us that we're right where we need to be and that the path opens, um, as it is meant to.

[00:36:50] Anne Makena: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much, Claire, for having me, and it's always such a joy chatting with you.

[00:36:59] Claire Wathen: Thanks [00:37:00] for listening to the Web of Us. The Web of Us is produced by Josie Colter and Ben Beheshty, design and scripting by Studio Goldstar. Hosted by me, Claire Wathen, a visiting fellow at the School Center for Social Entrepreneurship at the Said Business School of the University of Oxford. See you next week where we continue the conversation about access and barriers through the lens of people and power.

[00:37:23] Claire Wathen: Welcome to the web.