How movement connects our inner and shared worlds, with Alonzo King

“To make this world work, we have to be fanatically positive,” says globally renowned choreographer and founder of LINES Ballet Alonzo King on The Web of Us. In conversation with Claire Wathen, Alonzo shares why movement is life, growing up with artistic and activist parents, and why stillness is key for sincere creative thought and collective action.


Timestamps
00:00 Introduction to The Web of Us
00:34 Meet Alonzo King: A Choreographer Redefining Ballet
01:20 Alonzo's Upbringing and Philosophy on Connection
02:43 The Essence of Home and Internal World
04:47 Time Travel and the Astro Plane
05:56 Art Beyond Appearances
07:18 The Value of Every Human Being
08:17 Creating Spaces for Curiosity
08:45 Alonzo's Creative Practices and Influences
14:10 The Birth of LINES Ballet
24:56 Classical Ballet and Cultural Influences
28:39 Choreography as Thought Structures
35:31 Final Reflections and Future Questions
37:29 Season One Wrap-Up 

Transcript

Introduction to The Web of Us

Alonzo King: And to make this world work, we have to be fanatically positive 

Claire Wathen: Welcome to The Web of Us, where we explore the visible and invisible [00:00:15] connections that shape our world. I'm your host, Claire Wathen for the final episode of season one. I wanted to close with someone whose work speaks directly to the heart of this series.

Someone who spent a lifetime exploring connection, working across [00:00:30] disciplines and embodying the kind of movement that networks themselves illustrate. 

Meet Alonzo King: Redefining Ballet

Claire Wathen: Alonzo King is all of that and more. He's a globally acclaimed choreographer known for redefining ballet as a vehicle for deep inquiry. Truth [00:00:45] and cross-cultural collaboration.

He's the founder and artistic director of Lines Ballet, one of the world's leading contemporary ballet companies known internationally for pushing the boundaries of the art form. I grew up studying contemporary and [00:01:00] modern dance, so this conversation was especially meaningful. Alonzo, along with other giants like Twila Tharp, Martha Graham, Lester Horton deeply influenced my training and that influence has stayed with me.

It's why I often see the work of [00:01:15] connecting people and networks as its own kind of choreography. 

Alonzo's Upbringing and Philosophy

Claire Wathen: In our conversation, we explore Alonzo's upbringing with parents deeply involved in both the arts and US civil rights movement, why [00:01:30] stillness is essential for any creative mind and how at the core of it all he believes we're here to help each other.

Here is the fanatically positive Alonzo King.

[00:01:45] Welcome, Alonzo. It's wonderful to have you on the web of us. Hello, 

Alonzo King: Claire. I'm really thrilled to be here. 

Claire Wathen: Well, I first learned about you when I was about 13 years old studying contemporary ballet back in Louisville, Kentucky. And I had a, a [00:02:00] fabulous modern dance teacher who, um, brought us in and we watched parts of following the subtle current upstream, one of your seminal works, and talked about different themes, and that was part of the inspiration for a, a series of classes.

So, [00:02:15] fast forward, it's, it's such a pleasure to have you. Here on the podcast. 

Alonzo King: Oh, that's so wonderful how connections work. Isn't it? Amazing. You were 13 and here we are. Here we 

Claire Wathen: are. Yeah. 

The Essence of Movement and Art

Claire Wathen: If my 13-year-old self could see me, um, I'm [00:02:30] excited to dig into your background and perspective before we get into your pioneering work in contemporary dance.

I would love to start with you and ask a few questions first. Where do you call [00:02:45] home? 

Alonzo King: I call home where the heart is because no matter where you travel, no matter what you do, the barometer for how you're feeling has a lot to do with your heart. And [00:03:00] so in. One of the things that really anchored me in art was as a shy kid, I really didn't have to leave my internal world.

In fact, that's where I [00:03:15] had to plummet. And so that idea of. How do I feel? Am I happy here? Am I unhappy there? It's not the location so much, but it's [00:03:30] where am I standing within myself? That's truly the barometer. One of the challenges of living life on planet Earth is we live in two worlds. We have an [00:03:45] external world and we have an internal world.

The Role of Stillness in Creativity

Alonzo King: And Claire, most of us are educated to chase the carrot of the external world, and which leaves us avoiding the internal world, which is the most [00:04:00] important. 

Claire Wathen: Hmm. 

Alonzo King: That is the place where you shovel peace. That is the place where you get closer to realizing who you are. That is the place where you can feel expansion.

And, and so we have a, a [00:04:15] balancing act that the majority of our, um, investment. So that we can really work in the outside world and contribute to helping others is really to de [00:04:30] to develop that internal world and go to that place of wonder and that tap in is inside. 

Claire Wathen: That's beautiful and can move with us regardless of where we are [00:04:45] physically.

Exactly. Exactly. Well, if you could time travel physically, where would you go and why? 

Alonzo King: Where would I go? If I could time travel, I think I would go to, [00:05:00] there's an astro plane called Hiran Loca. 

Claire Wathen: Oh, 

Alonzo King: that's, that's where I would go. 

Claire Wathen: Anything's available in this scenario. 

Alonzo King: It's a, it's a place of super [00:05:15] high consciousness and I mean, who doesn't want to go where there is love and peace abounding.

Who, who doesn't want to go to, where people can see each other for who they really are? [00:05:30] Meaning we are, we are souls and we're playing roles and on planet earth. We're fooled by those roles and we're fooled by appearances. The outer look, [00:05:45] you know, how many people have ruined their lives by, by marrying a handsome or a pretty face because they didn't see beyond appearances.

And that is one of the, my obsessions about art making is [00:06:00] the artist. Is not interested in appearance. They're interested in what is behind the appearance, and many, many painters have missed the mark when they got the look of [00:06:15] a face, but didn't get the essence of a person. And so our, our rapture is in nature.

Not in the way it looks, but [00:06:30] in its manner of operation. And so that looking behind the appearance to see how things work, whether it's mechanics, you know, physics or looking behind the [00:06:45] veil that most of us humans wear to see, regardless of this person's behavior, this is a soul. Resplendent, their radiance may be blocked right now, but have no doubt there's [00:07:00] a brilliant light within each human being.

And for us to doubt that or to not recognize that is, um, a grave error. And one of the, one of the [00:07:15] problems. In the world because if you can look at anyone, it's like, how do we look at people, right? If you can look at anyone and think that someone can be a nobody, how does that [00:07:30] work? A nobody means that they're valueless and you can do anything to them because everyone is a value, whether you can see it or not.

And if you have, if you are teaching in whatever discipline you choose, and you have [00:07:45] 30 children in front of you, and if you don't see those as luminaries, you shouldn't be teaching. If you don't see those as as seeds. Rich, ready to be dropped [00:08:00] into fertile soil and sprout, then you shouldn't be teaching.

You shouldn't be in front of them. 

Claire Wathen: Yeah. There's such a, a joy in being in a space with, with children and possibilities and curiosities that are so visible on their, their faces and [00:08:15] certainly when they start to move or to explore. And that's a theme that's come up, um, with many of our guests, of how do we create spaces for curiosity.

I am curious if you have. Particular practices that. [00:08:30] You go back to time and time again in creative work. Maybe you're starting a new piece or you're moving through different transitions, or do you have things that help ground you and create that space for your own curiosity? 

Alonzo King: I do. [00:08:45] I know I'm repeating myself, but I think it's a very big deal about how you see people that is, um, a recharger and your depth.

Of seeing people, A lot of it is based on how you see yourself [00:09:00] and how you identify and with age and work and expansion, your love for humanity becomes larger. That's inspiring. Because who are you speaking to when [00:09:15] you are writing a novel? When you're singing a song, when you are, um, creating a ballet, when you're building a community, you are speaking to human beings.

Your fellow citizens, your, your [00:09:30] comrades, your your, really with good vision, your brothers and sisters. There's this idea, Claire, that people feel that we are all living our separate little lives. No, we [00:09:45] are connected. And whatever you think and how you behave is affecting the planet. Thought is universally rooted and so if I'm thinking negative thoughts.

I'm plugging into [00:10:00] negative thoughts that already exist. I've taken my plug and I plugged into them, and that connects me with a lot of people who are thinking that same way, and it's a vibration and there's a wire exchange of vibration. That [00:10:15] comes through the mind and infect it. It affects, in fact, it chisels.

It carves your life because of the way you're thinking. If I'm thinking inventive thoughts, there's ways to plug in. If I'm thinking love thoughts, there's ways [00:10:30] to plug in, which means when I say there's ways to plug in, these thoughts exist. All the inventions that are going to come, they exist. They're just, they're sitting in space and we [00:10:45] plug into them.

But how you think determines how you behave and behavior from my perspective is movement. And to make this world work, [00:11:00] we have to be. Fanatically positive. 

Claire Wathen: I'm hearing really a theme of this inner capacity and how we've moved through the world. Um, yes. Is that something that was that [00:11:15] perspective, did that develop over time?

Is that something that was instilled in how you were raised and you come from a. A family in Georgia, I believe that Yes. Is very involved in the social justice movement and yes, the role of civil [00:11:30] rights, human rights, shared rights, possibilities, freedom, um, I'm curious, yes. How that shaped. It certainly comes through the work that you do all the way through your career. 

Alonzo King: My father had a very, um, big [00:11:45] impact on my life in that. He, again, it's back to what we, when I began talking about in the beginning, it's how he looked at people and he, um, was [00:12:00] very kind, really generous, super patient with whoever came close to him. And that was a model for me. I mean, regardless of who they were.

And he knew tons of people. Um. [00:12:15] He was the president of the Albany movement, so he was involved in civil rights. He traveled a lot, um, and just how he treated people, taught me everything, [00:12:30] you know, whether he was with Martin Luther King or whether I was in a car with him and he'd gone to, um. A property of poor people who would come out of these 10 houses [00:12:45] looking like royalty.

I mean, there was, there was a majesty in their presence and he would be humble and it was just beautiful to see, you know, people [00:13:00] sharecroppers or people who are close to the earth and they can assess character. Flawlessly. And so they're unimpressed by external stuff and [00:13:15] their eyes, the way the, the brilliance and the perception that you could see in their, in their eyes.

And then the way that my father would not, not physically do it, but it would be like he genuflected before [00:13:30] them, there was an openness, um, in his heart. Towards that majesty and that, you know, always stuck with me. It just always stuck with me. 

Claire Wathen: It's beautiful [00:13:45] how the people in our paths can make such an impression and help shape the mold as we move through the world.

Alonzo's Early Dance Journey

Claire Wathen: Then in future ways, well, shifting gears a little bit, I'd love to know how you [00:14:00] began. To dance. Did dance find you? Did you find dance? How did that start? And maybe take us through, um, the early days of your career. I know in 1982, it's where lines ballet really formalizes. But I [00:14:15] would love to hear kind of how you found yourself going along that, that journey.

Alonzo King: Uh, my parents were both, uh, big lovers of art. And so I was always surrounded by music. Uh, [00:14:30] my father spoke German, so I heard leader all the time. Uh, a lot of folk music, a lot of classical music, a lot of spirituals, and. A lot of people coming to the [00:14:45] house from Ethiopia, from Congo, and they would teach, they would have, some would be musicians and they would teach dances and play music, and I loved it.

And even carved masks some that [00:15:00] I still have. And so that was my environment. But in particular. My mother was a dancer and she had studied dance at in [00:15:15] the University of Ohio, and I would watch her move and it was mesmerizing. Now, it was a world that was beyond words, and I remember as a kid when [00:15:30] I would watch adults there.

I would be, I, I can't, I don't have this anymore, but when I was a kid, I used to be able to look at their backs and see their mental state by watch, [00:15:45] by looking at their spine. I have no idea why that has gone, but the revelation was the way adults moved. The way that they spoke were often in contradiction.

And so [00:16:00] movement to me, I saw it early on as a language and as a, as as and as a revealer of what's really going on underneath the surface. Uh, and that was very clear to me, answering your question, [00:16:15] those early signs and the fact I can't omit this, that when I moved. I felt like the external world dimmed a bit and I was in another world and it was, and it seemed, um, [00:16:30] enormous and unending.

And I really liked that world and it made a lot more sense to me. Yeah. 

Claire Wathen: Yeah. It's reminding me of a, a quote from Martha Graham about, um, [00:16:45] movement never lies. Uh, it's the barometer telling the state of the soul to those that can read it or something about like that, of this idea, that movement really as a yes.

As a way [00:17:00] finding tool. And I think, you know, there's many translations of that in other fields, like reading body language versus the verbal expression in say, a, a business context or a, you know, a meeting. If someone's saying this, but their body's very tight, we can start to tune [00:17:15] in to the energies and to the, the body expression and less of what's being said and, and how you can differentiate that.

So as you are as dance and movement and different cultures are coming into your home, help [00:17:30] us connect that over to coming up into the 1980s where lines ballet takes shape. 

Alonzo King: So I danced all the time and so I had a very strong and [00:17:45] developed personal relationship with movement. I would, you know, I would just be dancing anywhere, living room, garage, friend's house, nature outside.

Um, uninhibited about it. And when I [00:18:00] began to study and went into formal training, it wasn't odd to me because it was like, oh, this is another take. On one on what I love already, oh, here are [00:18:15] different, um, perspectives on what I already have a relationship with. So it wasn't, because for often I've heard people say, you know, I felt so awkward to me, or I felt [00:18:30] intimidated.

I felt, um. I felt that these were just other aspects on something that I already had a relationship with and they were broadening and, and interesting, and [00:18:45] there were performances and classes and trainings that I weren't particularly drawn to, but was so glad I did them because they were informative.[00:19:00]

And it had me moving and feeling and perceiving in a different way. 

Founding LINES Ballet

Alonzo King: And so I thought, you know, all of this information was really interesting and it got [00:19:15] to a point where I, um, you know, had danced with some companies and I really wanted my own kitchen. I wanted to, um, to create. Things with an emphasis on what I thought was [00:19:30] important.

When I was trained, you know, I was at American Ballet Theater and in almost every single school in New York. Um, and I would, in the classical [00:19:45] schools, I would think. Why don't the guys get to dance? Hmm. Variations. To me, that wasn't dancing. It was like double tour. You know where Yeah. 

Claire Wathen: You are the frame. The woman is Yeah.

The picture that old. 

Alonzo King: Yes. [00:20:00] It was like, I wanna move, I want dance. And so, you know, and, and why does every woman. Her only choice is to be self-like, you know, this is years ago when I was training, you know, [00:20:15] is, and I love the movement of a self, but it's a very small window when you have a human being called woman, you know, with all these powers and big mind to just have one quality, it doesn't [00:20:30] make sense.

And so that exploration, um, and those thoughts about how I would like to. Play in the field and what I would like to create. That became a goal and that's how [00:20:45] lines began. You know, I wanted to break all the barriers of what, how a woman moves and how a man moves and, you know, no prejudices in terms of skin color or height.

And [00:21:00] um, and those were the beginnings at lines. 

Claire Wathen: Mm-hmm. And how do you. Determine coming back to this theme of truth and what messages to convey, I mean, there's such richness [00:21:15] to the work that has over time become what people think of and expect when they think of lines. There's a very unique and characterized movement quality.

And in essence, how do you think about [00:21:30] what to convey when and how that may be sequenced over time or is it more of. The moment that speaks to you and then you see where it takes you from there. Like how, how planned and how organic do you find it? 

Alonzo King: I think that when you've [00:21:45] been working on. Ideas for a really long time.

As you become older and more practiced, you become more succinct and say what needs to be said in a shorter amount of time and with just a few [00:22:00] words. And by words I'm saying movement. And when you have also been working a long time, you, you've churned the ether and you are drawing a kind of dancer to you.

Who wants to [00:22:15] be involved in, in, in a work that, um, has no artifice to the best of your ability. You want to work with people who are thinking, what can I bring to this art instead [00:22:30] of what am I gonna get? 

Claire Wathen: Mm-hmm. 

Alonzo King: And that's a different mindset to work with human beings who say, I can actually disappear into an idea.

And so it's really not about personality, it's about [00:22:45] clarity in terms of form accuracy, understanding. How often do you see in dance or anywhere sincerity. I mean, true sincerity. It's so beautiful. How [00:23:00] often do you see humility in movement? It will knock you over. It's, it's, uh, it's disarming. And so those qualities are things to work on.[00:23:15]

You know, it's the way that you practice. It's, it's how you are identifying as you move from the very beginning, who and what do you think you are. And so when you begin to remove those veils, and the, the irony [00:23:30] of it is, Claire, that for true depth and understanding of your inner self. You have to be still very still, very quiet.

Yeah. You have to be [00:23:45] still, you know, it's, it's those, it's the, the meditative, contemplative practice that brings you into awareness, that brings you into expansion. And so it's funny, isn't it? You know, these [00:24:00] dancers, you know, we as movers, um, stillness. It's where we plummet and that has to be done night and day.

Claire Wathen: I was curious to hear more about, [00:24:15] as you started Lines ballet in San Francisco, you had some very clear early concepts of what you wanted this to become. You were also, I would imagine, having to navigate quite a bit of the more classical ballet [00:24:30] world. As you're building out, um, newer expression areas, and how did you find that experience?

Was it straightforward? Did you have to really navigate between the different existing power structures and infrastructure or, [00:24:45] um, yeah. I would just love to hear more about how did you find that building phase of carving out the, the space that you could sense was ready and, and needed, but not quite there yet?

Alonzo King: I saw for me, classical ballet. [00:25:00] Was and is when done well, one of the most beautiful art forms. And so I had this love for it. And I also had love for modern, I also had love for, [00:25:15] uh, traditional Hawaiian. I had love for the, the folk cultures, folk dances. Not the airport dances, but the true. Spiritual folk dances [00:25:30] of, of every culture.

And, and so I love movement, I love dance. You know, all of it was beautiful to me. And interestingly enough, all of it was similar. [00:25:45] And so the sense of defying gravity in a bore can be the same sense on stilts and can be the same sense if your hips are close to the ground and you're traveling on Demi [00:26:00] point.

In some native village, it's this sense of suspension and all of these ideational sensations can be in different forms, but they're the same ideas, but you've got [00:26:15] to take time to look and learn if you don't understand what you're doing. The symbology behind it, and its meaning often it can be like a foreign language that you are [00:26:30] speaking clearly with fine elocution, but you don't know what it means.

Some people know in, in terms of intuition, they just know and other people don't. You've heard that one of the. [00:26:45] Greatest early inventions was the wheel right, and that that wheel was discovered by contemplatives watching the sun in its daily orbit. And there's the wheel that [00:27:00] circle, the circle of unity with the snake eating its tail is that completion of a cycle, and there it begins again.

There's the rising of the sun. There's the [00:27:15] peak at noon, and then there's down disappear and back. That sacred circle is in tutu's everywhere. Where do we see the first grass skirt? It is a tutu. 

Claire Wathen: I never thought about it that way, [00:27:30] but yeah, 

Alonzo King: clearly it's a tutu and it's speaking to the circle and it's speaking also, depending on where it is to the waves of nature and how it makes it move, whether it's wind or it's a [00:27:45] reflection of water, ocean, and waves.

Um, what are waves, whether it's a heat wave or a musical wave, or a person's life in terms of the ups and downs or [00:28:00] surfing, there's all these, these movements and gestures that have meaning and they, and it's nonstop. And so the connections between things speaks to me. [00:28:15]

Claire Wathen: Hmm. And that certainly comes through in, in the choreography, a way of leading and a way of organizing ideas and people.

The Intersection of Dance and Leadership

Claire Wathen: There's a lot of inspiration that we can take from choreographers as being able to both sense all the different [00:28:30] strengths of a group and then also bring something to life and invite audiences in as we think about What does leadership look like today? 

Alonzo King: I think of choreography as thought structures. How do you aggregate?

How do you. [00:28:45] How do you play with the idea of numbers, the idea of one, an individual, and then the group, and then an individual merging in that group or another individual coming out of it? We [00:29:00] see that every day in life. You be the spokesperson for the group, and Nelson Mandela said he was the spokesperson, but they were far heavier.

Way to your minds. This is from [00:29:15] his own voice. He's saying this, who pushed him forward because he was the spokesperson. And so is the group less? No, that is the bo That is the, [00:29:30] that is a body, a body of minds. A body of uh, what we usually call 40 swans. It is a group that is connected [00:29:45] by a unanimous thought, a unanimous belief system, a unanimous direction.

Stay with me. If we see birds in [00:30:00] flight, sometimes they make that perfect arrow. Into a Chevron, and then they come out of it and go in and out of it, and then there it is again, perfectly aligned. That idea of [00:30:15] single and group is the romantic ideal and the classical ideal. In the classical ideal, the individual doesn't matter.

It's the community, it's the, [00:30:30] it's the balance in the romantic ideal, it's the individual. How I feel what I'm experiencing is so profound that it has universal language, and so there is no work that's completely classical and there's no work that's completely [00:30:45] romantic. And so it's the, again, it's that mix and how do we rearrange them to communicate ideas.

Claire Wathen: It just speaks to. In a world that's often very categorized. [00:31:00] Yes. Um, siloed would be another way to say it. You know? Yeah. This industry, this discipline, this school versus this way of thinking and, and that perhaps. We have more in common across the so-called lanes. Yes. [00:31:15] And also that there's beautiful combinations when you bring that diversity of how this group, for example, sees different things looking at the same and experiencing the same experience.

Alonzo King: Yes. I will say that [00:31:30] personally in working with dancers, you wanna see who they are to the best of your ability. You don't wanna put something on them. You want to find their understanding because if [00:31:45] you have someone who you want to work with and may want to work with you and just like a musician or whatever contributor that you're bringing into a creation, um, lighting [00:32:00] designer costumer, it's like.

Every musician, all the ones I've worked with, and so many of the greats, you know, I've been really fortunate. They want to create something that they wouldn't or normally do by [00:32:15] themselves. They want, they're not there to show their skill off. They've done that already. Mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm. You know, that's, they want to, they want to come into a creation that sparks something that they haven't touched yet, or something that [00:32:30] they want to, or so that there is, which is the dream of all of us that we can continue to expand.

And I think it's important when you're working with, um, groups of anyone, it's to understand [00:32:45] what the idea is. The aim is what we're going for, and that changes all the time. You may have an idea, you walk into the room, you begin to toy play, go for the design, [00:33:00] and then you find another idea emerging that's better.

That's why I tell people I'm not interested in my thoughts. You know, I'm interested in bigger thoughts. You know, most of us think in loops. I wanna get into the, [00:33:15] the gigantic ideas of the universe and talk about those. 

Claire Wathen: Hmm. And it also speaks to your style of leadership and how you've. Work to create spaces where that abundance can be, the [00:33:30] baseline new things can come up because that's actually the, that's the hope and the intent is to not know and name it too soon.

Alonzo King: So important. So important. And it's, it's such a thrill when [00:33:45] you have someone so investigated that they show you their study on a phrase. You look and say, my goodness, I never thought of it like that. That's brilliant. [00:34:00] And so this is how we contribute to each other, and everyone has something to say.

What's interesting about you is you, and so often in our, in our education, we are [00:34:15] rewarded for being a good knockoff, a great copy, and that is murderous. 

Claire Wathen: And it brings us back to the start of our conversation. And how do you see people? How do you Yeah. Choose That's right. To [00:34:30] show up and move through these spaces.

Alonzo King: Once we, um, we had a grant to go to places who would ordinarily not be able to see a ballet company, and we were at some [00:34:45] farms in the Midwest. Those farmers saw that ballet and they talked exactly about what they were seeing. It was so incredible how they saw it, because they were close to the earth [00:35:00] because they work with crops.

They saw again what we were doing, and so if you have people who are really deeply involved in what they're doing, regardless of their discipline, and they get [00:35:15] together. They will say, you know what? We're doing the same thing. 

Claire Wathen: How magical. 

Final Reflections and Conclusion

Claire Wathen: Well, Alonzo, it's been so wonderful to explore these topics of seeing and sensing and moving [00:35:30] and leading.

I'd love to wrap with a, a final question, which is, what questions are you holding and living into now? 

Alonzo King: A few. There was a friend of mine and. [00:35:45] She walked up to me and said, this is not a time for us to be saying woe is me and wring our hands. We are here for a reason and we are here [00:36:00] to help. That struck me.

We're here to help and that's how we should be for ourselves and for our fellow men. We should be helping our brothers and sisters in any way that we can, [00:36:15] and that I believe that most of the artists that I know, they're here to help to show that, that we are in fact not weak whining mortals. We are immortals who are [00:36:30] caught in delusion, and we've gotta wake up and come back to the reality.

There's a saying. Christ says in the Bible, no, ye not that ye gods [00:36:45] and the kingdom of heaven is within you. That's yoga indisputably. And so the work is inside. When they say space is the final frontier, no internal is the final frontier, 

Claire Wathen: and [00:37:00] there's plenty to explore there. 

Alonzo King: That's right. 

Claire Wathen: Well, that's a beautiful note and reflection to end on, and one that I'm sure we can all take into what can be very busy and hectic lives is how do we create.

[00:37:15] Space for the quieting, the stillness to go inward in order to then be intentional outward. Thank you so much for being here, Alonzo. It's been such a pleasure. 

Alonzo King: Thank you, Claire, so much for having you. The pleasure was mine. 

Claire Wathen: Hey there. [00:37:30] Thanks for listening to the web of us this season. We explored the visible and invisible connection shaping our world from dance, fungal networks, and migration to trust in social and financial systems.[00:37:45]

Guests from Oxford University and across the globe offered a lens into their own journeys and disciplines showing how connection when thoughtfully built, becomes a force for good. A quiet thread of abundance and joy kept surfacing, [00:38:00] reminding us the. Connection isn't just necessary or beautiful, it's also strategic in an ever-changing world.

The Web of US is produced by Josie Colter and Ben Beheshty at Studio Goldstar, hosted by me, Claire [00:38:15] Wathen, visiting fellow at the University of Oxford's Saïd Business School. And yes, we will be back for season two this fall. Stay subscribed and you'll be the first to know when new episodes drop.

Thanks so much for being part of this first chapter. Your [00:38:30] reflections, messages, and reviews mean the world to us. So if you haven't yet, I'd love for you to leave a quick rating or comment wherever you're listening. Until next time, welcome to the [00:38:45] web.